Jonathan Roberts has built and exited multiple businesses. Here he talks about how with his 2 partners they got to a natural exit point and successfully closed out One Rabbit, their 27 years old 'No BS' marketing consultancy.
@JonathanRoberts co-founded @OneRabbit with 2 partners 10 years ago. He'd worked with those same partners for 17 years prior in a marketing and design business, which ultimately morphed into One Rabbit.
Along the way he's founded, owned and exited multiple other businesses. In this episode and based on that deep experience as an entrepreneur Jonathan shares high value insights on the challenges and rewards of making a strategic exit. Specifically he talks about;
A must-listen for potential business sellers and entrepreneurs seeking to exit on their terms and with confidence.
"Enjoy it, stay there while you enjoy it, make it as profitable as you can. And then when you stop enjoying it, pull the trigger, move on." - Jonathan Roberts
RESOURCES:
Timestamped summary of this episode:
00:00:06 - Introduction and Purpose of the Podcast
Michael Kerr introduces the Small Business Banter podcast and discusses its focus on business owners at different stages of ownership, such as selling, being approached by potential buyers, or aspiring to buy a new business.
00:01:13 - Guest Introduction and Business Background
Jonathan Roberts shares his extensive background in sales and marketing, including founding and growing One Rabbit, a professional services marketing firm. The discussion touches on the unique approach taken by One Rabbit and its transition into a consulting firm.
00:05:42 - The Transition to One Rabbit and Business Philosophy
Jonathan explains the transformation of One Rabbit, emphasizing the decision to focus solely on professional service firms. The discussion also delves into the philosophy behind the name "One Rabbit" and the shift towards a no BS approach in marketing.
00:09:27 - Knowing When to Wind Up a Business
Jonathan discusses the natural progression towards winding up One Rabbit after 27 years, citing a loss of enthusiasm and a desire to pursue other business interests. The impact of COVID-19 and the exploration of potential alternatives, including selling the business, are also mentioned.
00:16:55 - Navigating Business Partnerships and Personal Reflection
The conversation touches on the dynamics of business partnerships, personal attachment to a business, and the gratitude for accomplishments over 27 years. Jonathan shares insights on communication within partnerships and the departure of co-founders.
00:17:23 - The Importance of Conscious Business Decision-making
Jonathan discusses the importance of conscious decision-making when it comes to exiting, not exiting, or selling a business. He emphasizes the need to have a plan and be aware of the options available.
00:19:27 - The Trade-off in Exiting a Business
Jonathan shares his experience of stepping away from his business after 27 years. He discusses the factors that led to the decision, including being passionate about other business opportunities and feeling less motivated in the current one.
00:25:32 - Renewed Purpose in New Ventures
Jonathan talks about his new business ventures related to reducing food waste and the positive impact it has. He highlights the renewed vigor and purpose he feels in his current endeavors, compared to his previous consulting business.
00:28:51 - The Entrepreneurial Spirit and Continuous Growth
Jonathan discusses his entrepreneurial spirit and the excitement of building new businesses. He emphasizes the importance of continuously investing time and energy into new ventures and the satisfaction it brings.
00:31:23 - Maximizing Earnings and Exit Planning
Jonathan advises business owners to maximize their earnings while in the business and invest in exit planning. He acknowledges the challenges of selling a business and the need for conscious decision-making throughout the process.
00:34:27 - Building Business Systems
Jonathan reflects on the need for more business systems in their knowledge-based business to diversify income streams and maximize profits. He emphasizes the importance of smart marketing and working with enjoyable clients.
00:37:18 - Becoming an Expert
Jonathan discusses the bravery required to say no to clients and the importance of becoming an expert in a specific niche to command higher fees and provide better service.
00:38:05 - Exit and Succession Planning
Jonathan shares his perspective on exit planning, emphasizing the importance of enjoying the business, making it profitable, and recognizing the right timing to move on.
00:39:40 - Finding Jonathan
Jonathan provides information about his website and encourages listeners to connect with him for further discussions or inquiries about his business.
00:40:46 - Wrapping Up
The host, Michael Kerr, concludes the episode, encourages listeners to subscribe, and offers personal assistance through the website. He also announces the release of new episodes every couple of weeks.
00:00:06
Welcome to the Small Business Banter podcast. I'm Michael Kerr. I'm your host, and I'm also the founder of Kerr Capital, where I work day to day with business owners. The Small Business Banter podcast is built for business owners and their trusted advisors at what I see is three different key stages of owners ship in a business. Could be when you're looking to sell, it could be when you've been approached by a potential buyer unexpectedly, or it could be when you're an aspiring owner about to buy a new business.
00:00:39
There's a lot on the line, personally and financially at each of these three stages. It's stressful, it's emotional, and it's usually new territory. So to help each episode of Small Business Banter is a discussion between me and another business owner or experienced small business advisor, and they will have personally been through a business sale. What you'll get is practical advice, new ideas, and motivation to help you when making a really important decision about what to do with your business.
00:01:13
You welcome into another edition of Small Business Banter podcast, episode 135. Today. Jonathan Roberts is joining me. Jonathan, great to have you in. I'll tell the audience a little bit about you in a sec, but thank you for making time.
00:01:28
Thanks for having me on, Michael. Jonathan is an entrepreneur. His business interests are pretty extensive. But the reason we connected mainly was through his business, one rabbit, which was an innovative professional services marketing firm. And you were always kind of trying to encourage yourselves and also encourage professional service firms to take a bit more of a unique approach to their marketing and differentiation.
00:02:00
You had a no BS approach. I got this email, or maybe six weeks, eight weeks ago, saying that you and the other two founders have decided it's time to wind it up. That really piqued my interest. We're going to chat about the merits or otherwise of exit planning, knowing when it's time and doing something about it. If you're in business, but your experience, you're now the founder of Zero Waste Project.
00:02:33
You've co founded, I think, five or six other businesses in tourism, in tech, environmental related things, even financial management. So, yeah, great track record as an entrepreneur. Jonathan, do you want to just give us a couple of minutes on that background before we rip into a conversation on the merits or otherwise of exit planning? Sure, Michael. I guess you could sum up my background is I've always been in sales or marketing in one form or another.
00:03:06
One of my first jobs was working for Target in the menswear department in Campbellwell. Back in the I don't want to say what decade it was. It was a long time ago. They were selling flares, were they, or something? Yeah, pretty much.
00:03:18
Pretty much. And then started working for a family business in the office, products worked and started in the warehouse. Ended up as the marketing director for the company and we were turning over about $15 million a year. So that was a ten year gig. And then I said, I want to do this myself.
00:03:36
I want to jump the desk and actually provide marketing, not just buy marketing. And then I did some consulting for a couple of years and then I met a mate called Fred Thompson. He's a creative director in the Geelong region. And he and I started design advertising back in 1995. That was a lot of fun.
00:03:58
That grew pretty quickly. We sold that business in 2000. We reacquired it twelve months later.
00:04:08
Fred's brother Jim joined us before that, before we sold and got us out of the poop, which was good because he's got a financial background. We grew the business after that. We reacquired it, we cleaned it up, continued it for another ten or so years. And then we were sitting around after a couple of bottles of wine. I thought this marketing, branding, graphic design sector is pretty tough, very hard to differentiate.
00:04:36
We're pitching against other folios, but people are selecting us for, I guess, reasons that weren't factual based. They said, we like this profile or this folio. We don't like that folio, so we'll go with you. And this was Jim pushing a lot of this. We decided to pivot the business into a consulting firm.
00:04:59
And that's where one rabbit was born. And we invited a guy from the US to help us do that. So we flew him over and that's one rabbit was born in 2013. And that's when we became more advisors and consultants and less designers, practitioners and practitioners. And that was a fun journey.
00:05:24
And then Covid happened. And then we decided earlier this year that we've had enough. That's it in the real shorts. Yeah, overview. But the story behind the one rabbit brand was, do you want to just cover that?
00:05:42
Because that was pretty cool. Sure. We couldn't differentiate ourselves when we were pitching for work and we were working with anybody. So when you're trying to sell to anybody, then everybody's your competitor. So we thought, there's a better way to do this.
00:06:02
And we started doing some work in the professional services space and we felt comfortable in that space, working with accountants and lawyers early on. So we went down the path of helping them and helping us to be more targeted on who we approached. So when we flipped to one rabbit, we stopped talking to everybody and we just talked to professional service friends. And it was a scary thing to do because we were working with councils and tourism and a whole range of really, anyone with a checkbook. And then to go from that to we're just going to work in professional services was a necessary jump off a cliff.
00:06:42
And it got worse before it got better, but when it got better, it was much better. And that was from that focusing because was there a parable or a story about one, like chasing all over the joint and then if you're hungry, you pick one. That's what I remember from in one of our sessions. Fred, one of the partners in the business, said, look, we're chasing too many rabbits. We're trying to go after too many people.
00:07:12
So that's where the name was born. There's a Confucius saying, man who chases many rabbits catches none. And we thought, hang on a minute, there's something in that. And so we did that for ourselves and saw the benefit. And then we, then I guess we used to say we eat our own dog food.
00:07:30
So what we did for ourselves is we would help other firms go through the same journey from trying to be all things to everybody, to go, okay, where do you do the best work? Where can you get the best margins? Where do you enjoy the work the most? And then we would take people on that journey. Yeah.
00:07:46
And you're always pretty. Not blunt. Yeah. In the way the market is. You used to put out those memes almost, of this is a professional services website that could be any one of 200 consulting businesses because it was all the same words and same stock images.
00:08:08
You really did push a few. A lot of that. I guess angst was coming from mean. Jim was a management accountant before he joined us, and Jim was Fred's brother and he. This is.
00:08:28
He didn't believe in traditional marketing because you couldn't measure it and all this sort of stuff. And a lot of the writing he did was from frustration going, this is BS. And that's where the no BS guide came from. And he wrote most of that. When we developed that document and we were going to target lawyers and accountants, we thought, can we go to that audience with a document called the Node BS Guide to marketing your firm?
00:08:57
And I'm so glad we did because as soon as it hit, it struck a chord with people. And what it did was it attracted people who also had a no BS approach to their business and how they worked and their just personalities. So it kind of morphed into our philosophy and our ethos and then it attracted like minded partners and firms. Yeah, makes a whole lot of sense.
00:09:27
But at the time it was a big change from what we were off the cliff a bit and it took a couple of years and I guess for us it took a few years and then we could shorten that period for our customers, saying, this is what we've learned on the journey that we've taken. We're going to help you do it in six months or twelve months. Yeah. So that was the little bit of a surprise when I got this email whenever it was six, eight weeks ago, and when something along the lines of, we've decided when the time is right and it is now right, we're going to wind this up and we're going to go do our own separate thing. So that's the nub of the conversation I wanted to have, was, I might just start with two questions.
00:10:24
How did you know it was time and what were the alternatives to what was holding you back from staying in the business?
00:10:38
Well, after 27 years, some of it was just I'd lost the enthusiasm and certainly Jim had also lost his enthusiasm. I mean, we loved the work we did, but Covid was pretty tough. Although Covid was a really good opportunity for us to be more virtual. So instead of just working in Australia, we worked in the UK. We were able to work virtually in the UK and whole different places.
00:11:03
But I guess maybe Covid started the journey to go, well, how much longer do we want to do this? And as we trimmed the team down to the three people that were left with Jim, Connell and I, and I'd always had, or for the last ten years, had a couple of side businesses that were gaining momentum and gaining my passion and interest. Jim was more heading down the retirement track and Connell was sort of in between. So earlier this year, we know, what are we going to do? I was pretty keen to spend more time in my other businesses and my key role within the business with getting new business was business development.
00:11:49
So I guess without me there, there wouldn't be a lot of business coming in the door. So it kind of happened naturally. There wasn't a board meeting where we said, right, we're going to shut the business down on this date. I don't want to say withered, but in some, maybe it did, maybe we lost the passion and lost the energy and lost the drive to keep pushing.
00:12:17
And that's very much the message that came through. There was this synchronicity realization that we can all do different things, and for you, maybe, I mean, everyone's got trade offs to make, but I suspect you had these other businesses that maybe weren't getting the attention that they might. And so it was a fair time to say, well, I can shift into those things. And there was other things of interest because the zero waste business is totally different. I've got my kids involved, it's a startup again, so there's all that energy around a startup and the challenges and whatever.
00:12:55
But I think we all just came to that conclusion. I started thinking about it two years ago and we had a couple of conversations about, well, what's the future look like? And I think that's important to do. And we did have an external chairman, because if you've got three partners who do the three partners report to. So we had an external chairman that we would meet with once every few months, and he helped us get a little bit of clarity around what the future could look like.
00:13:26
We did think about, we've got some really interesting ip within the business, is there any value in that? And I shopped it around a little bit, but at the end of the day we didn't get any buyers, obviously, and we thought, look, it's probably just going to be easier just to wind the thing down over time. Yeah. There wasn't some effort or review of the upside of selling because it was uniquely positioned, as far as I could see, as an advisor to professional service firms. But then you didn't want to kind of drag that on for years, trying to extract some value because the relationships with your founders could suffer your other projects.
00:14:20
Look, we got some interest, but we were more concerned about what would happen to that ip in the hands of someone else, because it was our lifeblood. We really were very passionate about it. So we didn't feel that that philosophy could be managed by someone else. And we thought, look, maybe it's better just to wind the business up or close the business down as we did on a high. We've had lots of fantastic customers.
00:14:56
The business was debt free, we've had a good ride, as every entrepreneur knows, it's been a bumpy ride, but we've had some fantastic periods, so we've done pretty well out of it. And we thought, well, we have to almost spend a couple of years structuring it to sell it for a significant amount of money. And none of us had the energy to do that. So we thought, let's just quietly on our terms at a time that felt right. And we just walked off into the sunset, all pretty happy about it.
00:15:41
That concept that comes up a lot about, it's more than a business, it's a representation of who you are, and it's like your baby. Absolutely. It's funny I say this. I'm happily married now, but it's my third marriage, so my marriage to my business lasted longer than any other relationship. I've had 27 years.
00:16:07
So I look at that and go, big part of you. Massive. It's a huge part. My kids didn't grow up through it. But a lot happens in 27 years when you run a business for that long and you look back at it and go, wow, that was.
00:16:22
There's a lot of gratitude and a lot of, you know, you forget about the things that you achieve when you own your own business, and it's good to stop and look back and go, wow. Actually, we did some cool stuff. Yeah, be proud. But also, you sounded like you had an external chairman, but you also had a communication that was going between the three of you. Lots of business partnerships don't work early on, let alone, but things can happen.
00:16:55
And a trigger event like, well, one of us wants to get out, but the other two don't, can cause a lot of it did. However it came about, I'm sure it wasn't as straightforward as this, but it. Michael, it was pretty. I mean, Fred, who I started the business with, left a few years ago because we weren't doing a lot of creative work, and he was frustrated, and we discussed it. And he's now set up a fantastic business in bow and heads called Kinnon Co.
00:17:23
And he's doing his portraits, and he's got a great shop. So he exited really smoothly, still an equity partner in the business, but he was off building that business. And then Jim and I decided, look, let's do what Fred did and step away from the business. And there was no acrimony that I've never had a Barney with either Jim or Fred in 27 years. Now, we've had disagreements, and you get pissed with them sometimes, but we've never had a serious disagreement, which is freaking amazing.
00:18:02
It's extraordinary. Yeah. And probably put yourself in the fortunate basket to go that long with some business partners and still be friends. Colleagues, absolutely. Yeah.
00:18:16
We're all catching up for a Christmas lunch in a couple of weeks, so, no, we're colleagues and mates through work. Yeah.
00:18:28
Hey, there. It's just a quick interruption to the podcast, and it's a message from Kerr Capital, a supporter of the podcast. If you're a business owner thinking about selling. The worst thing you can do is jump into a sale process, advertise, and hope for the best. If you want to get a sense of what your business is worth today, what your options are to make it more sellable, then head on over to Kerr Capital website and check out the value and sellability diagnostic.
00:19:00
Now let's head back to the podcast.
00:19:06
Can I just flip that around? Because this podcast, a lot of what I'm wanting to do is understand what it's like to exit. To not exit. What do you got to do to exit a business? And by exit, there's maybe selling, maybe sell a part of it.
00:19:27
But I just want to promote the idea that you've got to be conscious about what you want to do with your business. In the end, if you really care about it, you want to find a good home for it with somebody else.
00:19:44
You didn't have any formal exit plan for this business, but you succeeded in getting to a decision. The three of you, what was the really big factor for you? Was it that you now got these other things ready to go? So the trade off was too high to keep going? Yeah, good question.
00:20:13
No, it wasn't a trade off. It was the fact that I was more passionate and more interested in the other business opportunities. And I felt after 27 years, that. Journey had run its race, and to stay would have just undone a lot of good work.
00:20:35
You want to enjoy going to work every day as much as you can. And I guess the longer I was there, the less I was enjoying it, or the less I was motivated, maybe. And the more I was motivated with these other businesses. Now, if I didn't have the other businesses, I would have probably, I would have kept going, and one rabbit might still be going. But I think with Jim sort of keen to retire, going to senior retirement, or at least for a few years anyway, it just felt like the right thing to do.
00:21:06
And we had a partnership agreement, and we've got a great account, and we had it all structured appropriately. So the wind down took a bit longer. Well, it took as long as it takes. You've got to shut down bank accounts. And deregister, the company, we're going through that now.
00:21:25
So we only shut the bank accounts down last month. So it's pretty fresh. Yeah, very.
00:21:34
We turned off the advertising campaign six or eight months ago because we were doing a lot of marketing through LinkedIn. We thought, well, let's wind that down or turn that off and then see what happens. How did you feel that was in advance of making any announcements. So was that a little bit excruciating. To say for me?
00:21:58
Absolutely. Because. You'Re a business developer. Yeah. And then with less activity and less interest and less inquiries coming in, I was less motivated, I guess.
00:22:11
So it was kind of the beginning of the end. The beginning of the end, I guess. Yeah. I mean, we made that decision. We said, look, it was actually beginning of the year going well, do we want to keep spending x dollars every month in marketing and picking up clients when we're not getting the enjoyment out of it that we used to?
00:22:36
It wasn't a cut off, it was just a slow progression. We finished working with clients, we wouldn't reengage them. And it ended, I think, as well as it could have. Yeah, look, and this is what really genuinely intrigued me, because so many, they have one business for 20, 30, 40 years, it defines them and they avoid doing anything about exiting because they get a sense or they're not even necessarily aware of it or conscious about it, but there's nothing on the other side. It's like I've got my business, I enjoy being busy, whether they do or not.
00:23:17
I enjoy the financial rewards. But underpinning it, I think, is often a fear that what will I do with myself if I do sell this business? I've known many owners who have sold and there wasn't anything. And playing golf four times a week wasn't as fun as they thought it would be because they're wired to be a business owner and it's really vacant. It's not devastating.
00:23:51
Well, possibly it is for some. Yeah. I could never see myself retiring because I just enjoy doing what I do. But I think Jim, we're all different personalities and he was more than happy to because he was the facilitator of the workshops we did and it was pretty intense. So he would have to get himself up to those towards performance.
00:24:16
And it was getting harder and harder. And we said, look, if we're not enjoying this, let's walk away.
00:24:27
Life's too precious. Time is too precious. He's happy fishing and playing golf, and he's doing a bit of pro bono work and whatever. But most of the people I know that have retired, that I know reasonably well, are busier now than they were when they were working. They're doing all sorts of things and that's terrific.
00:24:45
But I'm in a space now where I'm really enjoying growing this business. And it's interesting. It's got more meaning for me than what we used to do. I mean, consulting to lawyers and accountants and management consultants was great, but there wasn't a bigger meaning for it. Whereas what I'm doing now is helping reduce food waste and those sorts of things that actually makes a difference and particularly when we're getting trust pilot reviews around some of our products saying, this is fantastic, you go, oh, hang on a minute.
00:25:18
We're actually doing some good here. Whereas the good we were doing before is totally different. We're actually doing some good now, which feels pretty good. It's nice.
00:25:32
It's renewed vigor, purpose for what you're doing. So tell us about zero waste because as you said, it's pretty raw. You've only closed the bank accounts, but it's also you're moving on quite rapidly by the sounds, which is great. What do you do there? It kind of helped because the zero waste project came out of a business that my brother started.
00:25:56
He bought a franchise in Melbourne 15 years ago and that franchise installed humidity and bacteria control filters into cool rooms on a rental basis. So he built that business up and I thought, oh, that looks like an interesting business. I like the idea of recurring revenue and low overheads, so I tinkered with it. In Geelong. I bought some filters from my brother and I started getting some clients pubs and restaurants, any sort of hospitality venue.
00:26:24
They typically have a walking room. So I picked up some clients, but one rambot was my main focus. So it sort of just was a little side gig. And then during COVID I thought, how do I grow this business outside of Geelong? And that's where the idea for the fridge friend, the smaller version of the cool room filters came from.
00:26:51
So we took the big filter and redesigned it into the small filter that we could sell online and people could put in their fridge at home. So we launched that in January. We started shipping in March and we've sold about 5000 units. We've just had 10,000 more units arrive that we're assembling in Geelong at the GDP industries. So we're using a social enterprise to assemble the units and we're shipping them all around Australia.
00:27:19
So it's gone unbelievably well. We've done about half a million dollars in revenue in about nine or ten months. It's a flying start. Yeah. So that's the consumer side and then I'm still working on the commercial side, which is the filters for cool rooms.
00:27:39
Once again, the focus is where the money is at the moment, which is fridge friend. But I still want to keep building the ecofreeze business. It's a great opportunity. They're both great businesses that could grow internationally. I'm hoping to start selling fridge friend in the US next year, so that would be pretty cool.
00:28:02
No exiting this one anytime soon? No. Well, unless someone comes along with dirty. Great big check. But I never went to uni.
00:28:10
I'm now back at uni doing a course at Deacon through their Manu futures program. It's a ten week. It's called the ignite program, where they get startups coming in and they help you design their product. Now, I've come in late and I've already got a product. They're now helping me redesign the product and do some pretty cool stuff.
00:28:27
So I'm growing lots of new muscles that I didn't have. It's excellent. And you've got that DNA to want to keep doing things. And it's really exciting not to drag it back, but to what we're chatting about. But it's so vital.
00:28:51
And when we finish this, I want to get your reflections on what you would advise other owners to do who aren't actively thinking about what they really need to do. But there was a sense of a trade off. It's paying off because you're investing your time and energy and you're excited about what you're doing now and you've let go of that other thing. And I'm sure it's not as clean cut as that. But 27 years is a long time and to be able to let go, it needs something else on the other side.
00:29:29
That's what I kept. I think so. And I think one of the things that has helped me is that I was one of three. And probably, I think the boys would say the most entrepreneurial out of the three of us. And I felt towards the end that a lot of my entrepreneurial spirit was kind of being held back.
00:29:52
And that's where now I can go hell for leather in this new business and make mistakes and do all sorts of crazy things. But the whole thing about selling a business, I mean, we looked maybe five years ago, ten years ago, trying to sell a business, and once again we had some interest. But I think one piece of advice that I think, and I got it a few years ago, is maximize the profit of your business while you're in it, because there may not be a buy in at the end. I think there are very few businesses that are saleable quickly without a lot of hassle and a lot of distraction.
00:30:41
I agree. The ideal business that everyone wants to buy is profitable under management. And the question back is, well, if you were the owner, why would you sell it anyway? Yeah. Isn't there a tsunami of businesses coming on the market due to people at our age?
00:30:59
And I've been hearing that for a while now and I'm not necessarily seeing it. Look, there's great businesses out there to buy and I'm looking because there might be something out there that suits my skill set, that I think I can improve. But I really think maximize your earnings while you've got the business. And don't expect the Tas lotto ticket at the end. Yeah.
00:31:23
As you go along, you do what you can and work on the basis, and if you're serious about selling it, you've got to invest seriously in exit planning or preparation. And not many owners do that over years. It is a two or three year plan to redesign the business to be saleable. Yeah, I love irony. If someone has invested what is needed to make the business run under management, it gets to the point where you can probably have more choice in holding it because it's doing all the things that an independent business could do for you.
00:32:06
But as you say, there's not many. A lot of owners don't do a lot about selling for one reason or the other. They're happy or they bump along and some of them will advertise. What you see advertised is only there's a lot of sort of personal services and retail business. There are about 80% of all advertised businesses.
00:32:31
So if you wanted to find niche businesses and more non retail, non personal services, you got to go hunting yourself. And one thing, the last discussion I had was with, I got a couple coming up with professional searches who are out there hunting for particular kinds of businesses and they're knocking on doors more and more. And so I'm not saying that you wait for that call, but the exits off market, if you like, are going to be more and more of a thing for owners.
00:33:14
It's great to get your reflections. It was a bit of a random, and we'd known each other a little while and I was really keen to get from someone, particularly as it's so fresh, just to give their reflections on the experience I had of gently winding down something rather than trying over years and years to manufacture a sale. Or you did it in kind of partnership with your partners, it's kind of been a good outcome and you've moved on and you're doing other things. So you have sold other businesses in the past, but if you had a couple of you just said, make your money as you go. But is there anything that you, particularly from the point of view of encouraging an owner listening to think, to actually take a bit more than giving it a little bit more thought than they might be currently, because you have to have a conscious decision about what you're going to do with your business, and holding it's fine, winding it down is fine, selling is fine, but as long as you're conscious.
00:34:27
What's your thoughts there on what an owner should do? Good question. Look, I think if we were to do what we've done again, I probably would have built more systems into the business. Look, we're a knowledge business, so there's only so much you can do with knowledge. We had plans at one stage to do online learning where you could sign up for a course and all those sorts of things which most knowledge firms try and do.
00:34:56
I'd be looking at other ways. How do you spread the income across different areas so that you're not relying on one sector, or not one sector, but one income stream? And we had one income stream. It was consulting. And I think businesses look more attractive if they've got multiple income streams and the most attractive looking businesses are the most profitable.
00:35:23
So how do you maximize your profits, keep those fixed overheads down as low as possible, and do smart marketing, get high margins, get good clients and grow a business that people like to work with. I mean, that was the thing that we impressed on our customers when we were consulting to them, is if you had a choice, a lot of people go and work with anybody and often those relationships aren't fantastic. But if you're in the knowledge space and people are buying your time and your expertise, you want to try and find people that you enjoy working with and having the guts, I guess, to say no to someone if you don't feel they're the right fit. It is, but it takes brave. Brave, yeah.
00:36:20
And sometimes saying no more often makes your business better, as opposed to saying yes all the time and then going, shit, how are we going to deliver that piece of work? Or whatever if you say no, sorry, that's not where we provide the best value. I can recommend you to someone, but we can't help you. And then all of a sudden we had impostor syndrome for a little while. And I think everybody does for sure.
00:36:46
Over time, once you start believing or seeing the results of the work you do, and you know a lot more about what the advice you're giving than the people that are receiving it are. So I just believe in yourself and work with the people you enjoy working with. Yeah. And there's inherent bravery to say no. The earlier you are in your business lifecycle because we all got to pay bills, but it becomes a bit more of a reinforcing.
00:37:18
You are the expert, you are who you go to to solve those kinds of problems. Become an expert. If you're not an expert, become an expert. I think generalists, people are looking for the brain surgeon, not the GP. So become the brain surgeon and you'll pay a brain surgeon a lot more.
00:37:40
You'll also put up this shitty service. You'll wait two months to see a brain surgeon, but you wait for a GP anyway. That's some of my broader business philosophy, as opposed to succession planning. But I think we looked at doing succession planning, but we never got excited about it. We thought, oh, we'll just keep doing this while we're enjoying it, and when we know when we stop enjoying it, we'll get out.
00:38:05
That's exactly what we did. Yeah, but that is an exit or a succession plan of a different form. Right, an exit plan in academic terms, it's take this business from today to being sale ready in three years or five years. So it's profitable under management, all those things.
00:38:28
The number of businesses that actually do that are pretty low. Like really low, but it's not the only way. So you've had an external chair, you've had good communication with your partners, and timing was you recognized the timing and did something about it. So that's an exit plan. That's okay.
00:38:52
And so again, to reinforce, if you are an owner, it doesn't have to be the full package, but as long as you're in command of what? As in command as you can be about the timing you're going to have for staying in, getting out, moving. And I don't think you can start thinking about that too early.
00:39:19
I was thinking about what do we do with the business ten years ago, and every now and again, every six months or every twelve months, you go, hang on, where are we heading? How do we get out of this thing if we want it? But we were enjoying it so much and then we weren't enjoying it. So that was our exit plan. Enjoy it, stay there while you enjoy it, make it as profitable as you can.
00:39:40
And then when you stop enjoying it. Pull the trigger, move on. Excellent. Good stuff. Jonathan, what's the website?
00:39:48
Well, if people wanted to have a chat to you, are you happy with that? Where do they get you? And what's the website for zero waste? If you go to zero wasteproject.com au or if you Google Fridge friend, that's the domestic product, you'll hit the website. And if you hit the website, you'll start getting followed by all my ads that I do on social media because we do a lot of social media ads and me shaking floppy carrots around and all sorts of stuff.
00:40:20
So anyway, it's all a bit of fun. So yeah, look, zerowastproject.com au or look me up on Google, not Google, on LinkedIn. Yeah. Jonathan Roberts yeah, that's excellent. Appreciate your time, Jonathan, and thanks for giving it to us.
00:40:36
While, know, just relatively recent. Take care. No worries. Thanks, mate.
00:40:46
Well, I hope you enjoyed that episode of small business banter, and I hope it was helpful in helping you make the most of your small business ownership. To subscribe, to listen back, or to check out any of the resources or information we talked about on the show today, head over to the website smallbusinessbanter.com au. Or you can search up small business banter on your favorite podcast player. Don't forget to subscribe, and if it was helpful, tell another business owner about the podcast. If you think I can help you personally, please reach out to Michael Kerrr via the website.
00:41:21
There's a new episode out every couple of weeks. I'll see you then.